About this episode
Eddie Reynolds, founder and CEO of Union Square Consulting, introduces the Go-To-Market Efficiency Pyramid, a proprietary framework designed to help companies prioritize GTM improvements for maximum impact on revenue and efficiency. With deep experience at Salesforce and across numerous client engagements, Reynolds brings credible, operationally grounded perspective to a problem every revenue leader faces: an overwhelming backlog of things to fix with limited resources.
The core thesis of the pyramid is simple but powerful: companies must establish fundamental processes before adopting tools, optimizing workflows, or deploying advanced automation and AI. This reframing directly challenges the post-growth-era temptation to buy shiny objects as a shortcut to sales excellence.
The pyramid's four stages—Fundamentals, Adoption, Optimization, and Acceleration—create a logical sequence. Fundamentals means defining your ICP, buyer personas, sales methodology, and baking those into your CRM. Adoption means verifying that your team actually follows the process. Optimization means analyzing clean data to find what works. Acceleration means layering in tools and AI only after the foundation is solid. Reynolds emphasizes that most companies have broken fundamentals (misaligned processes, bad territory design, unclear customer definitions), yet they spend heavily on tooling that amplifies dysfunction.
The episode walks through real client examples—Techstars, Salesforce acquisitions, and anonymized customer situations—to illustrate how companies skip steps and waste millions. It then maps the pyramid across four core motions: pipeline management, outbound sales, inbound sales, and customer success. For each, Reynolds details the diagnostic questions a CRO should ask and the telltale signs that a gap exists. The conversation also surfaces the importance of capacity planning, the risk of chasing NRR vs. new business without data, and how even massive, sophisticated companies (Salesforce at $5–10B) must revisit fundamentals when entering new product categories or markets.
What we cover in this episode
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0:52
The GTM Efficiency Pyramid Framework Introduction to the four-stage pyramid model for prioritizing GTM improvements: Fundamentals, Adoption, Optimization, and Acceleration.
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1:44
Why Companies Skip Fundamentals Common pattern of buying tools and automation before establishing basic processes, leading to waste and diminishing returns.
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4:13
The Four Stages Explained Detailed breakdown of each pyramid level and how they build sequentially from foundation to advanced capability.
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8:34
Real-World Gap Examples Case studies including Techstars capacity planning, Salesforce Pardot acquisition, and anonymous customer failures in process and data.
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21:47
New Business vs. NRR Prioritization Framework for choosing where to focus first using benchmarking and opportunity sizing rather than assumption.
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29:33
Diagnosing CRO Gaps Strategically Step-by-step approach for CROs to assess pipeline management, inbound, outbound, and CS processes to find highest-impact fixes.
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47:15
Capacity Planning for Outbound Sales Methodology for calculating rep territory size based on pipeline management, inbound load, and available prospecting time.
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66:54
Implementing the Framework Practical steps for moving from concept to consistent execution: dashboards, pipeline councils, and continuous improvement.
The lines worth sharing
We need to identify the things that if we fix them and really perfect them are going to drive revenue the most and also drive our revenue efficiency the most.
Eddie Reynolds · 0:30
You can't optimize something that's not being done. If each rep does something differently, there's nothing to optimize.
Eddie Reynolds · 6:45
If you don't have your fundamental process working, and we didn't, we spent a lot of money on tools and people that we can no longer afford to fund.
Eddie Reynolds · 2:15
Foundational work scales far better than trying to coach each rep individually on what works and what doesn't.
Eddie Reynolds · 13:20
Common questions from this episode
What is the Go-To-Market Efficiency Pyramid?
A four-stage framework—Fundamentals, Adoption, Optimization, Acceleration—that prioritizes GTM improvements by building foundation before layering tools. It helps companies identify what to fix first for maximum revenue impact.
Why should companies focus on fundamentals before buying AI and automation tools?
Without clear ICP, sales process, and CRM discipline, tools amplify dysfunction. Fundamentals enable clean data and repeatable execution, making tools effective. Skipping them wastes money on solutions to non-existent problems.
How do you decide between focusing on new business versus NRR?
Calculate potential upside in each area using current performance and industry benchmarks. If NRR can move from 90% to 110%, that's often bigger impact than adding new pipeline. Data-driven choice beats assumption.
What is capacity planning in outbound sales?
Calculate how many accounts a rep can actually handle by accounting for pipeline management time, inbound load, and customer coverage. This prevents over-assignment and forces focus on high-value accounts within reach.
What happens if reps run a sales process differently?
You lose visibility into pipeline health, can't coach accurately, and can't forecast. One rep may appear to close 85% while another closes 15%, but the difference is how they log deals, not skill.
When is it safe to add automation and AI to a GTM process?
Only after Fundamentals, Adoption, and Optimization are solid. Use AI to define ICP or build territory plans early, but avoid layering forecasting tools or outbound agents on top of broken data and processes.
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Eddie Reynolds' Go-To-Market Efficiency Pyramid helps CROs prioritize GTM fixes for fastest revenue impact. Build fundamentals before buying tools.
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Go-To-Market Efficiency Pyramid
GTM framework
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Read the full transcript · 91 KB
EDDIE REYNOLDSWe need to identify the things that if we fix them and really perfect them are going to drive revenue the most and also drive our revenue efficiency or our go-to-market efficiency the most, hence the go-to-market efficiency pyramid. Welcome to go-to-market science. There's an art
SPEAKER_01and there's a science to go-to-market. And in this podcast, we talk about the science by interviewing CROs, private equity investors, and other sales and marketing experts, as well as talking about what we learn every day in the trenches helping to build go-to-market engines.
SPEAKER_03My name is Rachel Buchert. I'm the marketing manager here at Union Square Consulting. And
RACHAEL BUECKERTwith me today is Eddie Reynolds, our CEO and founder. Hey, Eddie, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_07I'm great. Excited to dive into this. Thanks for doing all the work to prep this. Of course. So today we're talking about the go-to-market efficiency pyramid. And this is our
RACHAEL BUECKERTproprietary model for analyzing operational maturity in companies. Eddie, in your own words, what's the go-to-market efficiency pyramid do? Well, let's talk about the problem that we're
SPEAKER_07trying to solve. I think that if you look across go-to-market, you're trying to close deals,
EDDIE REYNOLDSyou're trying to generate pipeline, you're trying to retain and grow customers. In every company that we meet with, there are a lot of things that are not perfect. So you end up with this laundry list of all these different things that you want to fix and you never have enough time to do
EDDIE REYNOLDSit all. So how do you prioritize this? Where do you start? Whether it's a smaller company that maybe just has one team or whether it's a much larger company where we have to fix these things across SMB, mid-market, enterprise and international team, multiple different products, et cetera. How do we prioritize? Where do we start? Where do we find the things that are
EDDIE REYNOLDSlowest hanging fruit, quickest impact? We built a framework to answer that question and we used a
EDDIE REYNOLDSpyramid to help visualize it. So the go-to-market efficiency pyramid is a concept to explain how people can prioritize what to fix and go to market first and also a visualization to help visualize how to think about this. And the pyramid came around long before I joined the company. So what led to the
RACHAEL BUECKERTdevelopment of the pyramid? What were you guys seeing in revenue teams that inspired creating this
RACHAEL BUECKERTmodel? I think that you just see a lot of the same issues again and again and again. I mean,
EDDIE REYNOLDSone of our consultants actually brought this with him from previous roles and then we sort of continue to develop it from there. And it really is just pattern recognition. It's solving the same problems again and again and again and saying, okay, there are certain things that are prerequisites for other things, which we'll get into momentarily. But the basic is, is that we need the fundamental process in place before we can start to like go and buy all these shiny tools or shiny objects and fancy tools that everybody gets excited about. And I think coming off the growth at all costs phase, a lot of companies have realized that a lot of folks have said, wow, we bought all these crazy AI tools and automation and multiple different pieces of software to do X, Y, Z. And we didn't have our fundamental process working. And so we spent a lot of money, not just on tools, but on people and our overall go-to-market motion. And we can no longer afford to fund that model. We need to go after profitable, efficient growth. We need to identify the things that if we fix them and really perfect them are going to drive revenue the most and also drive our revenue efficiency or our go-to-market efficiency the most. Hence the go-to-market efficiency pyramid.
RACHAEL BUECKERTOkay. And so why the pyramid design? What's the significance of structuring go-to-market efficiency in this way?
EDDIE REYNOLDSI think the idea here is just that you need to build the foundation before you can build on top of it. And so the pyramid is a nice visualization for that. And I don't want to skip ahead too much,
EDDIE REYNOLDSbut the basic idea here is that it's core foundation. We need to understand things like who is our customer, who are the buyers in our customer, and what is the fundamental process for
EDDIE REYNOLDSus to market, sell, retain, and grow those customers. And so if we start to try to layer things on and we're not clear on who our customer is or what our basic customer journey is or our go-to-market process, then those things are going to be far less effective. We're going to be throwing good money after bad. We're going to build a lot of tools and things in the business that are going
EDDIE REYNOLDSto be very inefficient and ineffective because they're built on a shaky foundation.
RACHAEL BUECKERTOkay. And we break the go-to-market efficiency pyramid into four stages. So at the very bottom, we have the fundamentals and then above that adoption and then optimization and at the top acceleration. Can you briefly explain and go through each of these stages and tell the audience what they mean and why they build on one another? Yeah, absolutely. And if anybody's interested,
SPEAKER_07we're going to post a video of this on YouTube so you guys can actually see the visual as well. And
EDDIE REYNOLDSwe've got a lot of written content on our website, but if you're just listening to this via audio, I'll do my best to explain it in a way that you can follow. At the foundation, we have the fundamentals and another way to describe this would be the fundamental process. So the example I'll use is let's talk about how we manage our pipeline. What does a sales rep need in place in order to close deals? Like what do they actually need? They need to know who the customer is. They need to know who the buyer personas are. They need to have a sales methodology and a sales process. And this needs to be baked into the CRM. These are the basic things that you need in order to manage the deal effectively. If you don't have that, then your reps are just doing whatever it is that they feel like they should be doing and everybody's doing things differently. So you have a really broken process success. And your success or failure of your reps is just going to depend on their own ability to figure it out on their own. By getting these fundamentals in place, you can get your team rowing in the right direction. And so those are some of the first things that we want to put in place. And again, I don't want to jump too far ahead here, but that's the base of the pyramid is the fundamental process. Once we have that fundamental process in place, we now need to drive our team to adopt that process. And so there's other things that we need in place in order for that to happen. But a simple question is, is our team following that process? If we talk about closing deals, does our team run the sales process? Are they asking the right questions at the right time? Are they chasing the right deals? Do they know when a deal is qualified and can be put into pipeline? Do they know when they need to walk away? Do they know how to forecast accurately? These are all of the things that we need to drive our team to adopt. And then once we have that adopted and we have the basics in place and actually being executed, now we can start to look at optimizing that, right? You can't optimize something that's not being done. So if we go in and we look at a team where each rep does something differently and we say, well, how do we optimize our pipeline management? How do we improve our close rate? We say, I don't know. I mean, each rep does something in their own way. There's nothing to optimize. And I think that this is really the challenge that we see so often is how would you solve this without some kind of a fundamental process? You'd go rep by rep and you'd try to figure out like what each of them is doing and what's working and what's not. And it's a really difficult way to solve for this problem as opposed to saying, let's take a big step back. What is our sales methodology and what is our process and how do we drive our reps to actually leverage that? And this is not saying that this needs to be paint by numbers. This can apply to very complex enterprise deals. I've personally experienced this. I was a rep at Salesforce for three years. I've personally experienced how they run their playbook. And it's not saying that you have to do this thing on this call, but it's giving you a process within which you can work and making sure that everyone across the organization understands it. Now you start to look at, does this work or does this not? Which reps are closing plus 25% of their pipeline? How accurately are we forecasting? Which types of customers are we winning deals with? Which types of customers are we not? We can start to get accurate data because our team is actually executing the process and filling the CRM or other systems with data. We now have the ability to analyze that data and identify what's working and what's not and where we can optimize. And then from there, once we've got something that's really working, that's when we can finally start to look at these shiny objects. We can start to look at ways to accelerate something that is not only working, but has been optimized and look at advanced tools to see how do we amplify this? How do we get even more juice out of this? And we can get into that later in the podcast, but that's the basic idea. What we don't want to do is go after that shiny object to begin with. And we look at this and we say, oh, wow, we've got this new cool AI tool that's going to do X, Y, Z. But, you know, we're still running deals with no process. We're chasing the wrong customers. We're chasing the wrong personas in those customers. Our reps don't know when to walk away. They don't know what it means to qualify a deal. They don't know what steps they're supposed to take when, you know, there's no magic bullet that's going to solve for that just because you buy a new tool. And why do you think people like see all
RACHAEL BUECKERTthese automation tools and AI tools and they feel like they can skip all that foundational stuff and just, you know, spend money on these shiny objects, like you said, and think that it's going to work because it seems kind of common sense to me when you explain it. Well, you know, it's funny. We
SPEAKER_07developed this methodology or this framework a few years ago. And now looking at this coming off of
EDDIE REYNOLDSthe growth at all costs phase, I feel like I need to sell this a lot less. I think a lot of organizations have realized this. If you go back, you know, 10, 15 years when I sort of started to get into this, you know, we were trying to convince organizations to stop using on-prem tools, to stop doing everything out of Excel on whiteboards. When I was selling Salesforce, even in 2013, there were still some companies that were asking, why do I need Salesforce? Why can't I use this other tool or do this in Excel? And, you know, just in like a couple of years there, I saw a lot, lot less of that, especially from sophisticated companies. And we kind of went in the other direction. And all of a sudden it was like, wow, we have a tool for everything. Outreach and sales loft really took off. And it's like, wow, we can amplify all of our outbound. You know, we've got a million different tools to find contact information. We've got all these marketing tools. I'd never heard of marketing automation when I joined Salesforce in 2013. Like the entire concept was new to me. And now it's, it's kind of old news. And I think a few years ago, we had so many tools in the market that we kind of got bought into this thing of like, of course you should use Salesforce. That's obvious. Of course you should have a marketing automation tool. But now as you keep piling on top of that, you sort of hit this point of diminishing returns where it's like, wow, we've got 25 different tools. A lot of them with like conflicting features. And is this really helping us drive revenue? Like, I don't really know how you run a sales team or a revenue team without Salesforce. But I think we've all learned, like, we don't necessarily need 35 different tools. And so I think what was true, you know, 15 years ago, like, wow, we've got to get off Excel and whiteboards and move into like a shared system was not necessarily true in 2020 when it's like, wow, like, we don't need that next tool number 20 to amplify what we need to do. What we need to do is get our basic process in place.
RACHAEL BUECKERTWhat are some examples that you've personally seen or know about of people trying to skip these steps in the pyramid and how it messed things up for them?
EDDIE REYNOLDSGreat question. So let's use Techstars as an example. They're one of our customers. So their CRO, Ryan Spillane, joined Techstars about a day after or a day before he hired us.
EDDIE REYNOLDSAnd one of the things that he identified, even in just in the interview process, was this feeling that the sales team was probably spread too thin, right? So they've got Salesforce, they've got all these other tools, they've got processes in place, like they've been around for a while, they're going out and they're basically selling enterprise deals to partners to convince them to, you know, buy into these packages to work with Techstars and get in front of the startups that they fund. I won't go into great detail on what their team does over there. You can look it up online, but essentially it's effectively an enterprise sales team. And so Ryan looked at this and said, you know, I think our reps are casting too wide a net. I don't think that they're focused enough. And so what happens here is, is that you take a rep and you say, okay, they've got a thousand accounts assigned to their name because this is our, all these accounts are in our ICP or total addressable market. But, you know, these are enterprise deals. How many accounts can that rep actually cover well? You know, I mean, we can all press send all in outreach or sales loft or what have you, but how many accounts can they actually go in there and research and develop personalized messaging and get in front of the right people and get creative? How long does that take? So we did a capacity plan for them and we figured out how many accounts that was. And then we helped them narrow their territories to within that capacity and identify the best accounts within the number that they could actually cover. So now we've got reps laser focused on all the right accounts. That's it. There's so many more things that we've done with tech stars and other customers since doing things like that, but just that alone increased their pipeline generation substantially within, I think it was a quarter or two. We've got the story on our website and just that. And it's not hard to imagine why if you give a rep a thousand accounts and they can only handle a hundred, then which hundred are they going to call. I've personally been in this situation before. And then I'm sitting there and I happen to have pretty good Excel skills and other things like this. This is probably why I ended up doing this. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, wow, okay, I need to do a data and a data analysis exercise. I now need to like export stuff into Excel. I need to go find other data. I need to research the stuff online. And it's like, so first of all, do I even know how to do that? Not every sales rep has those skills. Secondly, am I really great at that? Even I would not put myself against our SVPs of go-to-market strategy and ops in this regard. Like they've done a lot more of this. They're way better at it than me. Do I have all the data, et cetera, et cetera. Shouldn't I be spending that time selling? And I experienced this. I worked as the first AE in an early stage B2B SaaS startup. And it was kind of like, I just had to figure this out. It's like, what's my territory? It's literally the whole world. Okay. You go figure that out. Instead, I walk in the door at Salesforce and they're like, literally, here you go. Here's your territory on a silver platter. And by the way, within your territory, here are the NIAX codes and six codes of the companies that buy from us most. Surprise, surprise. It's other B2B SaaS companies. And then, you know, it's professional services, advertising and media and manufacturing, which I didn't really cover when I was in New York. And you're like, oh, wow, like I can cross-reference this against my territory and I can get laser focused dialed in within a matter of a few minutes. That was a night and day different experience for me than working at a startup where they kind of just left it to me to figure out. I'll give you a couple other examples. Lack of sales process. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen this. We go into a new customer and we see that their sales team, Bob has a close rate of 15%. Jane has a close rate of 85%. And then there's like 20, 30, 40, 50, 100, 200 other reps all across the board, right? What's happening here? Is Jane just like such an amazing salesperson that she closes 85% of all the deals that she works? No, absolutely not. Like there's just no way. What's happening is, is Jane is sandbagging. She's not putting all the deals into the system. What about Bob? Is Bob like such a terrible rep that every time he gets in front of a customer, he closes 15%? Maybe, maybe not. We can't really know. What's more likely is that there's no sales process. And so when Bob creates a deal in Salesforce and when Jane creates a deal in Salesforce are very different scenarios. So we can't get visibility and we can't coach Bob and Jane accordingly. We can look at other metrics like pipeline generation, things like this, and we can start to understand what's going on here, but it's really tough, right? We then look at, I'll give you another example. And there's a specific customer that I'm thinking of that I can't mention by name. When I think about this data and I go in there and I look at Jane's deals, right? And Jane lost a hundred thousand dollar opportunity, right? And I look at this and I'm like, what's going on with this? And I look at the opportunity in Salesforce and there's no information. There's no like bant or med pick information, nothing asking me like who the decision maker was, what their decision criteria was, what their motivating factors were, compelling event, et cetera. Just a hundred thousand dollar deal close lost. And it's like, what do I do with that? Now, what would you do with that as a sales manager? You'd go to Jane and you'd say, Jane, like tell me about what's going on with this deal. Okay, fine. That works when you have one, two, three, four, five reps. Like how does that scale across an organization with 300 reps or 3000 reps? You can't manage a team in that way. So you really have no visibility into what's going on in your pipeline and what's working well and what's not working well. You're just hoping that each rep figures it out and then you end up firing the reps that can't, which is a really expensive way
EDDIE REYNOLDSto run a company. We look at retention and growth. So many companies are understaffed. They haven't really thought about the amount of people that they actually need in order to take their customers through the journey that they want to take them through. And they don't have their processes baked out where they haven't said, okay, let's think about what is our handoff process from sales?
EDDIE REYNOLDSWhat's our onboarding process? How do we identify unhealthy customers? What do we do about unhealthy customers? How do we get ahead of the renewal? What is our process for renewals? How do we identify and run expansion sales opportunities? No one has this document. And so each person, account manager, AE, CSM, what have you, that's managing an existing account just does it their own way. And that's incredibly inefficient. And then let's touch on marketing. Here's a customer I'm thinking of that I can't name. We look at all their inbound leads and we ask a simple question like how many marketing qualified leads have they generated? How much pipeline have they generated? How much of it has converted to revenue? We can't answer that question because they don't have a clear definition of a marketing qualified lead. It's changed five different times. Each report you run, depending on what time period you run it on gives you very different information. We can't see which of those converted into an opportunity because there's no clear sales qualification criteria. We really can't see what's working and not working outside of just, we spent this much money and we closed this much business. There's nothing in between that gives us any visibility into how this is going. We don't have a lead process in place and we're not tracking it. So we can't see, have we responded to these leads quickly? What's our lead response time? We can't measure conversion rates. So we don't know if that's good or not good. We can't see how many times we followed up with each lead. So even if we knew our conversion rate, we couldn't know like why it is what it is because we can't see what the follow-up is. And then we're like left going, well, what's working and what's not working in marketing? I don't know. I mean, if you're not following up leads correctly, it's kind of hard to say whether or not marketing is working or not working and blame marketing for things not closing, but you've got to have these fundamental processes in place in order to be able to see what's happening.
RACHAEL BUECKERTSo the go-to-market efficiency pyramid then is like a diagnostic tool for like trying to drill down
RACHAEL BUECKERTand figure out what is happening in kind of like black box scenarios in your company where things aren't working, but you don't really know what the cause is instead of just assuming, you know, marketing aren't, they're not doing the job properly, or the sales rep is just not closing enough. They need to be more like this other rep closing at 85%. It's really taking a look at what
RACHAEL BUECKERTyou have in the data and your operations and figuring out the core root of the problems that you're experiencing.
EDDIE REYNOLDSKinda. We have our own diagnostic tool and the go-to-market efficiency pyramid is a, of some of the things that we ask in our diagnostic tool. So we're not giving away all of our secret sauce. If you want that, you got to reach out to us and hire us, or you could, we could do a diagnostic for you for free, potentially. We have over 150 different things that we look at across inbound, outbound, pipeline generation, retention, and expansion, as well as any other aspects of go-to-market. And the go-to-market efficiency pyramid is our best attempt to represent that in a concise way.
RACHAEL BUECKERTRight. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And so in our go-to-market efficiency pyramid framework that we have on our website, we discuss using this framework across four key go-to-market motions. So that's pipeline management, outbound process, inbound process, and customer success process. So why did you choose to
RACHAEL BUECKERTbreak it down this way?
EDDIE REYNOLDSI think these are just the things that we most commonly see, right? Obviously, this is not the end-all be-all of go-to-market. You have other channels, you have partners, you have PLG, you have, I don't know if I'd call this a channel, but usage-based pricing is, you know, it changes things. You've got lots of other flavors of this, but most B2B SaaS companies we work with, they all need to close deals, every single one of them. They all want to expand their customers. They all want to retain
EDDIE REYNOLDStheir customers. And the vast majority of them have inbound and or outbound motions.
SPEAKER_41Okay. And do you see companies typically, like, excelling in one of these areas and then
RACHAEL BUECKERTfalling behind in another area? Or what's the most common imbalance that you find?
SPEAKER_27Yeah, I think that every single company that we've ever talked to... Now, I will caveat this with the
EDDIE REYNOLDSfact that, like, people usually reach out to us because they know that, like, things could be better. When I worked at Salesforce, I would say that a lot of these things were in a good spot, not all of them. But as a general rule, I would say most companies have a lot of things that are broken. You know, if you've grown your company to 100, 200, 500 million in revenue, obviously, something is working, but there's probably massive inefficiencies. So, you know, we can talk to a company and they might say, well, we're doing a great job of closing deals in SMB, but, you know, we're not forecasting accurately. We're generating a bunch of pipeline in enterprise, but we're not closing deals very well. We're doing a great job on new business, but we're not doing a great job of retaining or expanding our customers very well. I think that every customer we talk to, they have a different view on sort of like what the mix is. And then, of course, we run our diagnostic and we dive in to see. And inevitably, what we find is, I mean, nothing's ever perfect. Like, you're never, ever going to see a company where you're like, you're a 10 out of 10 on every single point along this pyramid. But what we try to do is to say, if we could fix one thing, what would have the most impact on your business, right? I'll take a simple example here. The first place we start is new business or NRR, right? For most mature companies, especially past 100 million in revenue, I would want to argue that we should probably focus on NRR first. Unfortunately, almost every single person I talk to comes to me saying, we need to focus on new business. It's the minority saying NRR. Okay, well, let's test this. If you could take NRR from where you're at today, let's say that you're at 90% NRR, where could you get to? You could maybe get to 110%. Okay, that's a 20% uptick. All right, versus your new business. So let's say that we're at $100 million in revenue, like we're going to end the year at 90 million or 110 million with our existing customers versus new business. Let's say that we brought in $20 million last year and we think we could get that to 30. Okay, that's a delta of 10 million. All right, well, that would argue that you probably should focus
EDDIE REYNOLDSon NRR because there's a bigger uptick. I don't think there's a perfect science here. There's no way that you can accurately predict that like, oh, if we do these five things, we're guaranteed to have
EDDIE REYNOLDSNRR or new business of X dollars. But you can use benchmarks. You can look at what's going on in your industry with similar companies and you can kind of decide like, where do we think things are most broken? We can, of course, run our diagnostic and try to help identify that. Some of this stuff is really obvious, you know, like if you are just constantly churning customers because you have
EDDIE REYNOLDSa really poor onboarding experience and they're literally telling you verbally like, hey, we thought your product was cool. We never adopted it because your onboarding process is awful. I don't know, like that would probably be the first thing that I would fix. But we have to make a decision. We have to decide on something. So is it new business or NRR? We can fix both, but what do we want to fix first? And then we drill in within that. We go, well, if it's new business, are we closing deals or generating more pipeline? Everyone always wants to generate more pipeline, but I would really ask you, okay, if you're not closing deals, if your close rate is below 25% or it's all over the place, rep by rep, team by team, product by product, do you really want to focus first on pouring more things into a leaky bucket? Or should we just take a couple weeks to shore up these processes and get something in place so that reps can close more deals before we spend all of our energy trying to pour more pipeline into the top of the funnel?
RACHAEL BUECKERTAnd is there any difference between either a company is that 50 million ARR versus 500 million versus 5 billion, or does this all follow kind of the same process?
EDDIE REYNOLDSIt's similar and different, right? So I think like I joined Salesforce when they were at $5 billion in revenue and I left when they were at 10 billion. I've also been in an early stage startup at a million dollars in revenue and I've worked in companies in between and we've worked with tons of companies in between. I think the big thing that I see is, is like, let's take Salesforce as the extreme example at $5 to $10 billion in revenue. Well, at the time Salesforce had multiple products, though not nearly as many products as they have today. So Sales Cloud, their core product, like that was dialed in. Like we knew exactly who our customer was. We knew the ICP, the buyer personas, the messaging. We had like 35% market share. Marketing was dialed in. Sales was dialed in. CS was relatively dialed in. Kind of everything was like running on all eight cylinders, right? Then you take this to like the service tool and it was a little bit less so there. Like I think, you know, we're really trying to compete with Zendesk at that time. And we were struggling with which persona should we go after? I think a lot of times we were going after the head of customer success. And then we found out, oh, wow, this person maybe doesn't have as much influence in buying power in the organization as one might like. Maybe we should go after the COO instead. So that like at the most fundamental level, like what is our ICP and our buyer personas? Those are things that, you know, we had to figure out. And I think that they did figure that out prior to me joining. But now you take this over and like, okay, while I was there, they acquired exact target and by extension Pardot. Now, all of a sudden we have to go and sell these marketing tools. And I worked directly with our Pardot team as we sold Pardot to B2B SaaS companies that I worked with. And all of a sudden it's like, oh my God. And acquisitions, I think is a really great example. We've now acquired a completely different company with a completely different process. And they didn't have any of these fundamentals in place. What the reps would do at Pardot in the very beginning, a lot of them churned through, a lot of them didn't make it at Salesforce. They would just like basically pump their marketing engine and get eight, 10 demos a day per rep. So now the rep just shows up and throws up and they're doing the exact same demo to every single customer eight to 10 times a day. You finish the demo and it's like, do you want to buy? Do you not want to buy? Oh, by the way, this is 10,000, 20,000, $40,000 to sign on for an annual contract. Like I gave you a 45 minute canned demo. Are you ready to buy? Well, Salesforce looked at this and they're like, first of all, great that you guys have like such amazing inbound that you can have eight demos per day per rep. What would happen if we hire more reps? Now all of a sudden these reps don't have nearly as many demos, right? Now this process starts to break down. We as core AEs were like, you guys need to start running discovery calls.
EDDIE REYNOLDSLike you need to know who your ICP is. You need to know what buyer personas you're talking to. You need to like understand your messaging. Who do you talk to? You need to have a sales
EDDIE REYNOLDSprocess, right? What do you do before the demo? You don't just jump in and do a demo. And all of a sudden I started seeing some of these reps like, you know, were great and already understood this. Others learned it fast and others did not. And like got churned out of Pardot really fast. And all of a sudden you saw that like Pardot as a sales team grew probably 10, 20 X, and they had to adopt these new processes in order to survive because the days of like eight, 10 demos a day just weren't, were no longer. And so I think that they went from like everything is broken to getting that dialed in. And then I saw other acquisitions where we never figured it out. I mean, Salesforce has done a lot of failed acquisitions. And so when I look at our clients, we're not working with too many customers that are $10 billion or really not working with any, but as they're at 200 million, 500 million, a couple billion in revenue, we see that they've got certain aspects of their go-to-market really dialed in. They've got other aspects of go-to-market that maybe were dialed in a few years ago and things have changed and they haven't updated it. And they've got things that are new, you know, they've grown from S&B to enterprise. They're, you know, moved into international, they've launched new products, they've acquired companies, and those things are not dialed in yet.
RACHAEL BUECKERTYeah. Like you mentioned, uh, new products, new, new acquisitions, companies, new, new regions and
RACHAEL BUECKERTstuff, every single new aspect of their company that they're growing and scaling into, you kind of have to revisit this fundamentals again because your ICP for your main flagship products, it might not be the same ICP for this new product that you're releasing, or maybe the ICP is different for a different region, or if you're selling to S&B or mid-tier enterprise. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
EDDIE REYNOLDSI will never forget the day that Mark Benioff did an internal webinar titled, What the Fuck is Heroku? Because we were all trying to sell, and if anybody listening to this is not familiar with Heroku, it's, I guess it's a development platform. Like, to be honest, to this day, I don't fully understand it. Essentially, like, instead of going and buying whatever on, uh, I'm not a developer, so forgive my naivete here. You go and like buy on AWS, and then you build your entire like application layer tech stack on top of AWS. Instead, Heroku just gives you the platform and you can like, the pitch is like, hey, we can just start writing code right now. We can start building our application without all the infrastructure stuff. Cool. Great pitch. All right. Well, if you can't tell, I'm struggling to even describe what they do 10 years after being introduced to it. So you can imagine somebody who like spends all day talking to like sales, marketing, and CS leaders. Now, all of a sudden, like, I'm supposed to go and talk to like, you know, the developers or, or the CTO, CIO about this development platform. Like, can you imagine how broken that was? And I think it was a year after I was introduced to the product. Like, we're having an internal session, like trying to describe like, what the hell is this thing? Because none of us understand it.
RACHAEL BUECKERTSo if there was CRO listening to this, who's part of one of these big companies and like a lot of areas that could potentially be optimized, what's your advice for them to figure out like the biggest go-to-market gap? How can they diagnose their problem? What's the first step?
EDDIE REYNOLDSWell, like I said, I think like, let's start off with just simply new business versus NRR. Where do you think if you made an investment to fix things, where are you today? Where do you think you could go? Would that have more impact in new business versus NRR? Then let's drill down from there. Let's start with new business. I always advise people, let's start with dialing in pipeline management. Unless you're saying, hey, that's a 10 out of 10, or maybe an 8 out of 10. And we really just need to like fill the top of the funnel. Fine. Everyone seems to say like, we need more leads. We need more pipeline. If you're not closing that pipeline, I suggest starting there. And that applies not just to new business, but also to expansion pipeline and kind of to a lesser extent, renewal pipeline. If you don't have a good process for closing deals, to me, kind of nothing else matters. Then from there, we talk about, you know, pipeline generation. Is it inbound or outbound? What if fixed could drive the most impact? If we're in NRR, I think CS is really hard for me to describe because there's so many different processes, right? You have your sales handoff, you've got your onboarding, you have the way that you identify and track unhealthy accounts. You have
EDDIE REYNOLDSwhat you do about those accounts, the process to turn them around. And then you have the renewals process, which should start well before the renewal. And then once you're done with the renewal stuff or
EDDIE REYNOLDSbefore that, you identify and generate expansion pipeline and then close expansion pipeline. And then you have to forecast and all of that. So there's a lot there. So, you know, we've actually described this in our framework and how to break this down. But that's the way that I think about it. You start highest level, new business versus NRR. And then you drill in from there. Then once you sort of like land on something, let's take pipeline management as an example, we start with the fundamentals. And we've got this laid out on our website, but the first piece, the fundamentals, ICP and buyer personas. Look, if we're trying to close deals with the wrong people in the wrong companies, it's not going to go very well. Let's make sure we know who our customer is. The next piece, what is our sales methodology? What's our sales process? Next, do we have that sales methodology and sales process baked into our CRM? Can I open up an opportunity in Salesforce and literally see the questions that you would ask your reps if you were asking them about what's going on in a deal? It doesn't have to be every question, but what are some of the key questions? If we use MedPick as an example, what is their decision process? What's their decision-making criteria? Who is their decision maker? What is the pain associated with their problem? These are things I would want to ask a rep if I was doing a deal review. Why not ask those things in Salesforce? And this
EDDIE REYNOLDSis what I personally experienced as a rep at Salesforce. We didn't use MedPick at the time. We use something called the success selling methodology, but it's pretty similar. And they were asking these questions on the deal in Salesforce. You then have a reporting mechanism where now management can get visibility into this and they can say, show me a pipeline report
EDDIE REYNOLDSof all the deals that are supposed to close by X date, stack ranked in reverse, biggest deals first. And then, you know, what are our next steps? What's our mutual close plan? What's the decision criteria, et cetera. And I can go deal by deal very quickly and efficiently to understand what's going on. And when I was at Salesforce, I experienced this, not only would my manager, but also his manager and his manager and his manager. Sorry, everybody. My whole line of managers were all men. So anything gets female leaders. Just that's the situation I was in. His manager, his manager, his manager, his manager would all look at my pipeline and review it and make comments. And so I would get the equivalent of a Slack message today from my boss's, boss's, boss's, boss's boss. Like this deal is supposed to close next week. Like why aren't your next steps up to date? That makes you follow the process really fast. Right. And the good thing about this, about the fundamentals and the adoption, you can get these things in place in weeks. Now, are we going to improve close rates on enterprise sales cycles in two weeks? Absolutely not. Right. It takes a long time, but we can get the basics in place. We can build everything in, like we can define our process and build everything into the CRM. We can build the reports. We can start using the reports and we can start to say like, Hey, like, do we have clean pipeline? That's something we can achieve pretty quickly. If we're talking about our outbound process, like we can get people making calls and scheduling meetings with the right companies relatively quickly. With inbound, we can shore up our process for how we route leads and how we follow up with leads pretty quickly and start to look at conversion rates. And with CS, you know, we can start to track things like how many of our customers have started their onboarding on time? How many of our customers are healthy? How many of our unhealthy customers have we reached out to in the last week, in the last month? There are some things here that are low hanging fruit that you can get to pretty quickly. And it's hard to summarize this because we've got this literally like explained on four different frameworks on our website. That's where I'd start is drill into like, do we need to like fix our pipeline management or our inbound or our outbound or our CS process first? Which process is broken? Like, okay, we know who our ICP is and our buyer persona is, but like, we haven't mapped out the process or we've mapped out the process. I can't tell you how many prospects we've talked to. They're like, Oh, our process is great, but it's not built into the CRM and we don't have a reporting mechanism. We don't have an ability to see whether our reps are following that process. So you could literally go to our website right now and just go bullet point by bullet point and kind of assess like what's most broken and start working on that. Or of course, like without pitching us too hard, like you can reach out to us and we could help you. Should we go through each of those motions just briefly one by one and talk about the
RACHAEL BUECKERTdifferent levels of the pyramid for each one? Yeah, why not? I think we're going to go deeper in
EDDIE REYNOLDSsubsequent podcasts and YouTube videos and we've already gone deep on our website, but like, let's make sure that the listeners here at least get a high level. I feel like I've described pipeline management relatively well. You did, yeah. Up to optimization. So with pipeline management optimization, you kind
RACHAEL BUECKERTof touched on this, like once you have the adoption going, it's easier to like see where there might be gaps and things that can be improved. But what other metrics should we be looking at in pipeline to optimize that? Well, the pipeline metrics to me are like pretty basic. I mean, high level, like you're
EDDIE REYNOLDSlooking at pipeline velocity or sales velocity, right? What is sales velocity? It is a formula that attempts to combine the amount of pipeline you're generating with your close rate, your sales cycle and your ASP, right? So those are the four things that you look at. First thing I always look at is close rate. So if I've got one rep closing 15%, another rep closing 85%, like there's a big red flag for me. If everybody's sort of in that sweet spot of like, let's call it 25 to 40%, maybe 50% if you're getting like referrals or just like extremely high quality leads, then sure. But I'm pretty skeptical of anything over 40, 50%. Great. Like maybe we're doing something right there. Sales cycles as well. That really depends on what you're selling and who you're selling to. But if your sales cycles are all over the place, and I tend to look primarily at or only at the deals that are won, because it doesn't really matter to me how long it takes us to lose a deal. How is that working? Like rep by rep, team by team, product by product. And then you compare that to your open pipeline. And if you got deals in your pipeline that are 1.5X, 2X, 3X your sales cycle, it's like, every time I've ever looked at this, usually it takes twice as long to lose a deal as it does to win a deal. So fine. Like I'm not suggesting we give up on day one, but if you got deals in your pipeline that are 3, 4, 5X your sales cycle, like I can't think of a bigger red flag than that. Right. And then ASP, you can look at this rep by rep. And I saw this in my own team at Salesforce, the reps that were really good, the ones that knew how to engage executive stakeholders. They were the folks closing the big deals. The reps that couldn't, they were doing all these small transactional deals and they would close, they would generate, they would log more calls. They'd have more meetings. They'd have more pipeline in terms of number of deals. They worked harder, more hours, and they constantly missed quota. Damn. Oh, and not just miss quota. They missed their forecast because they had no idea what's going on because they're selling to junior people. And it's just kind of a, kind of a shit show versus the guys and gals that were at the top of the leaderboard were closing these big deals and they had really tight relationships with their key decision makers. And they knew they were going to close these deals because they're talking directly with the decision maker and they've got their deal lined up. Those are the metrics that I would look at. And I think like when we go into optimization, you think about like, well, what do we do with that information? Well, one, we run pipeline insights. Like we, I recommend everybody have somebody like not to plug us, but somebody like people like on our team or somebody on your team that's going to regularly review the data and try to figure out what's working and what's not on a regular basis, bringing that back to the CRO so that you can take action on it, whether it's coaching, whether it's improving a process, et cetera. Obviously forecasting is
EDDIE REYNOLDScritical. Like you've got to forecast accurately. And all of these things are prerequisites. Like if you don't have a tight sales process, you're not going to forecast accurately, full stop period. And then you've got the concept of a pipeline council, or if anybody's not familiar with this, we wrote a whole article on it. You bring all your stakeholders together, heads of marketing, sales, CS, maybe finance, maybe product. And you surface these insights from your pipeline, not just your pipeline management, but also your pipeline generation in new business and retention expansion. And you talk about like what's working and what's not. And you have a really
EDDIE REYNOLDSoffer direct conversation about what's happening. And you say, okay, like these are the action items coming out of this. Okay. Here's a problem. This is what we're going to do to fix it. This person's responsible. Let's go. Yeah. I think one of the things that I see breaking down is like, these concepts are not lost on people. I talked to CROs every single day and it's not like they're like, oh, wow, I've never heard of this. This is crazy. Never imagined this. What breaks down is like taking this process and moving it from concept into the CRM, getting the team to regularly execute it. Regularly, not just ad hoc, but regularly analyzing that data and then regularly saying, we're going to go do something about this. Yeah. It's like the concept of Kaizen, a Japanese word for continuous improvement. Like how do we just make that like 1% improvement every day? This is how you do it.
SPEAKER_77Yeah. And that's such an important point to make and like, not to plug us again or anything like that, but you know, like the CRO, they know these things. They have these strategies most of the time
RACHAEL BUECKERTand they're looking at this data, but they don't have the time to spend regularly, like every day or every week, really going deep into this data and making these insights and, you know, doing this execution work. And that's where having like a go-to-market strategy and operations team of whatever kind or a VP of go-to-market ops and strategy to come in and be like that, that engineer, that makes sure that the strategy turns into reality.
EDDIE REYNOLDSYeah. I really don't know how you run a mature SaaS organization without it. Not to plug what we do, but basically like someone has to do this work or you don't do it and you have these things slip into the cracks. And I think this is what we saw during the growth at all costs phase, right? Like sure. Plenty of companies have gotten to billions of dollars in revenue without this, but how much did it cost them? And how much time did it take them?
EDDIE REYNOLDSThe goal in my mind of go-to-market strategy and operations is to identify inefficiencies in the business and help focus resources, whether it's capital or people, ad spend, et cetera,
EDDIE REYNOLDSin the right places. I mean, at the foundation of every aspect of this, we've put ICP and buyer personas. As an example, if you don't know who your customer is, if you are targeting the wrong buyers customers, with your marketing messaging, with your sales outreach, landing those customers and then trying really hard not to churn them and they're the wrong companies, then you are going to spend a lot of money to get to your revenue target. If you fix these problems, you get to your revenue target faster and cheaper and you can scale more quickly and you have a more valuable company. It's other than building a great product, like this is the other most important thing you can possibly do in a company. Yeah. That and hire great people. And where do great people want to work? They want to work inside of a well-oiled machine. Yeah. And so moving on to the acceleration and pyramid for
RACHAEL BUECKERTpipeline management, at what point should a company consider accelerating this process with automation
RACHAEL BUECKERTor AI? Like, are there some effective ways to do that or telltale signs that they're ready?
SPEAKER_27Yeah. This is always a tough question, right? So one of the things that we kind of put into this concept is we really push back on customers on chasing these shiny objects, right? You've got
EDDIE REYNOLDSthis new AI tool, this new automation, whatever, and it's supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. And we're like, okay, cool. But you don't know who your customer is. So you don't have a sales process. Your reps aren't trained on that process. Like you don't need this fancy AI forecasting tool. Like you don't have the fundamentals in place. So let's wait on that. Yeah. Okay. But we've talked about that. We've got our fundamentals in place. The team's adopting it. We've looked at the data. We've optimized it. Now we're really ready to like accelerate this and amplify this, right? That's when I think it makes sense when you can take a tool, whether it's automation, AI, some other advanced concept, and you layer it on top of this foundation. With that said though, I don't mean to bucket all AI in one place. You could use AI to help define your ICP better, help to define your buyer personas better. So if you're using AI to get the fundamentals in place, great. But if you're just trying to layer AI on top of, you know, a broken foundation to say, oh, okay, like we're going to use AI for forecasting, that's not going to work very well. If you have like really inaccurate and limited data, if you're like reps don't enter your data in your CRM, like there's only so much the AI can do.
RACHAEL BUECKERTYeah. And that's, we used to have, um, at the top of the pyramid, we used to call automation and we switched it to acceleration for this reason, because we realized, you know, you can use automation to
RACHAEL BUECKERTfill these gaps in your fundamentals and adoption and optimization. What you want to do is make sure that those stages are complete. First, you have that foundation before you start accelerating things with automation or AI.
EDDIE REYNOLDSYeah, absolutely. Like a really great example of this, just using old school automation and Salesforce is like, okay, you have stage entry criteria. What does it take to move a deal in your sales process from stage two to stage three? For example, you can use lots of automation in Salesforce to enforce that, whether it's a validation rule that requires a rep to enter information in the CRM or something else like an email gets fired off or what have you to make sure that reps are following that sales process. That's great. As I mentioned, you can use AI to help identify your ICP or help you build territory plans. These are all great things, but we also see a lot of AI tools like I'll pick on sort of outbound AI agents. It's like, well, if you don't know who your customer is and you know, you haven't built out a solid list, you're just trying to spray and pray AI messages to everybody. It's not going to work. I mean, we're all getting these shitty AI messages in our inboxes these days. And we all see like, cool, like you went to my website and regurgitated what we do. I still don't have any interest in your product. Yeah. And I get so many cold emails every day. And I know you get
RACHAEL BUECKERTeven more than I do, but reminds me of one cold email I got very recently. And the thing that they were
RACHAEL BUECKERToffering was like a web scraper outbound automation tools, like spray and pray essentially. And the email was so bad. It got my company wrong, even though the company I'm working for, Union Square, is in my email. And it got like just, I don't know where it found this information. It must've been somebody else's LinkedIn that had a similar name to mine. I'm not sure, but everything about me was completely wrong. And they're like, it was just terrible. And the thing that they were selling was what they were using to get this information on me. And I was like, man, you're really not selling this tool very
SPEAKER_87well. If this is what it does. Yeah. I got an email with a video and like, I'm big on video. This
EDDIE REYNOLDScaught my attention. So mission accomplished in that regard. But this woman had my website in the background and then layered a video on top and I opened it. And obviously like, it's not the first time I've seen this, but I haven't seen a lot of it. So still novel enough that I opened it and she's like, Hey, like came across your website, seeing all this information, yada, yada, yada. And at first I'm interested at first, I'm like, Oh wow, like cool. And then I noticed, I'm like, wait, hold on a second. She didn't mention me by name, no mention of my personal name, no mention of my company name. Then she starts talking about like SAS. I'm like, I get that. I list myself as being in the SAS industry on LinkedIn. It doesn't mean I run a SAS company. I run a professional services company. Wait a second. You've never been to my website. You're using AI to scroll through my homepage and then layering a canned video on top of that. And then I even went and responded. I tried to click reply on the email and it said no reply at loom.com or whatever tool she used. So then I go to LinkedIn and I think she had messaged me on LinkedIn or maybe I messaged her. And I'm just like, Hey, if you're interested, actually go to my website and tell me how you think you could help us. And I get this canned response that says, click this Calendly link. If you'd like to book time with us. And I'm just like, you have to be kidding me. So I literally was like, you know what? Like I think I'm trying to remember. Oh yeah, I know what they're doing. They're selling like LinkedIn ads, which Rachel, you and I have talked about spending money on. So I'm like, you know what? As bad as this is, if you actually have unique insights on LinkedIn ads, I'll listen to it and didn't even get a response. No. And how awful is that? Cause you're, we're actually in market for something that not
RACHAEL BUECKERTas a invitation for people to cold email us. Oh, I'm going to get so many emails. We have the
SPEAKER_91best thing for LinkedIn ads now. But like what a missed opportunity, right? If they had just like
RACHAEL BUECKERTused a process, if they had some sort of process in place where they could make it actually personable and relevant, then who knows, right? Now that I think about it, I don't even know if
SPEAKER_07like the woman's like LinkedIn profile was real. Some of these are like even fake profiles. Yeah. I doubt it, to be honest, probably some like weird mill somewhere, like, like agency mill.
RACHAEL BUECKERTI don't know. Yeah. Anywho. Moving on to, well, and speaking of outbound, we'll quickly go through this one. So yeah, I mean, we just kind of talked about it, the fundamentals of that identifying your ICP and buyer persona. And what else, Eddie? Well, we skipped over a couple of things. I can touch on that if you want. So we are huge
EDDIE REYNOLDSon capacity planning. I know this applies across all of go-to-market, but especially with outbound. I use the example that I've had so many times in my career where you give a rep or when I was a rep, a thousand accounts and they can only cover a hundred or 200. Well, which accounts do I call? Well, how do we solve for this? Let's do a capacity plan. Let's sit down and let's think, okay, is this rep managing pipeline or are we talking about an SDR? If they're managing pipeline, how long does that take? How many deals do they need to run to hit quota? How much time does it take to run that many deals? How much time does that leave for other things in the day? Next, do they get inbound leads? How many leads do they get? How much time does that take? Next, are they covering existing customers? I did all of this at Salesforce, by the way. I know this is a lot for many reps, but this is what I did. So how long is it going to take to cover existing customers? Then after that, how much time is left to do outbound prospecting? All right, let's say it's two hours a day. All right, cool. Our AE now has two hours a day to do outbound prospecting. How many contacts per account do you want them to cover? Okay. When I was at Salesforce, I would guess the number would be probably about six covered head of sales, head of CS, head of marketing, CEO, CFO, COO, Salesforce admin, a few others. Let's just call it six because not every company had all those roles. Okay. How many times do you want to reach out to them? I don't know. Let's just say 10 times. Okay. So now we're going to reach out to six different people, 10 times each before we give up that 60 activities per account. All right. How many of those activities can I do in two hours? Well, if I just want to spray and pray and press send all, I can do an infinite number of activities, but what's our process for our tier ones? Like, should I research the account? Should I personalize the message? Should I do more than this woman who I'm knocking did when she reached out to me? Yes. How long does that take? Well, in two hours, if I was lucky, I could maybe get through 20 of these activities. Probably if I'm spending another hour doing research before I do that. All right. Well, you do the math. If I need to reach out to each account 60 times before I give up and I can do 20 activities a day, then it takes me three days per account. All right. How many working days do I have in a year? I have 233 working days divided by three. What is that number? That's something like 75 accounts. That's how many I can handle. So if you give me a thousand accounts and I just have to guess which ones to call, I'm probably not going to be calling the best accounts. If we know that number, now we can say, okay, what is our ICP? And keep in mind, like the keyword in ICP is ideal. What is the ideal customer profile? How do we identify the absolute best 75 accounts that we can assign to that rep? And then how do we segment it from there? So, okay, like I'm going to call on CROs and B2B SaaS companies. I'm also going to call on CMOs and B2B SaaS companies. Maybe I'm also going to call on CFOs in professional services companies. It's very different messaging. What if I create segments where one segment is only CROs and B2B SaaS and the next segment is only CFOs and B2B SaaS. How much better is my messaging going to be if I just spend all day going after CROs and B2B SaaS? Or it doesn't have to be an industry. It could be a type of company, depending on what your product is. Maybe there's like five different industries that all have the exact same needs for your product. We use QuickBooks. I don't know how different QuickBooks is from one industry to the next, but it's probably really relevant that we're a small business versus being a major enterprise. What types of companies can you narrow in on? Your reps are not going to be like 10 times more effective and 10 times faster just simply by having that focus. And then we go into adoption and we say, okay, well, let's build out what that process looks like to go and reach out to six different people 10 times. Let's train our team and let's build these reports and dashboards and let's see, are they reaching out to the right people in the right companies with the right messaging? And is that converting? Is that not converting? And once we have that visibility, we can then start to optimize the outbound engine and we can ask like, is this working? Is this not working? What can we fix and how do we layer other pieces? Maybe we need to layer on social prospecting on LinkedIn, for example, or incorporate intent into how we identify target accounts, or maybe we need to integrate our marketing data and blend inbound and outbound together, which I'm a big fan of, and just look at accounts holistically and say, which accounts do we want to go after regardless of whether or not they've engaged in marketing? And then once we've optimized that, we can start to accelerate that. And that's a point where I'm saying, okay, now you want to use AI for outbound messaging. You know exactly who your customer is, who your buyer persona is. You've segmented it down
EDDIE REYNOLDSand now you feed the AI. Here are 50 CROs and, you know, 50 to a hundred million dollar B2B SaaS companies that are perfect for our product. And here's their website and here's all their information. You feed that into the AI and it spits back a bunch of messaging. And then you manually look at that messaging and say, oh, wow, this is really great. But I'd tweak it here, here and here, man,
EDDIE REYNOLDSI'm all for that. Yeah. That's wildly different from just like, let's just dump a thousand accounts in here and see what the AI spits out. And the key being that little bit of human
RACHAEL BUECKERTmanagement on top of it. You don't want to just throw something into an AI, have it spit something
RACHAEL BUECKERTout and then don't even look at it and just like put into another automation system that sprays it to all of your contacts. That's how, you know, people might've seen stories on LinkedIn about this automation and AI gone awry and sending people emails about, you know, they've scraped something off of LinkedIn and now they're sending people an email about this very personal, sad thing that they posted on LinkedIn. And it's like, oh, it's really sad that your mom passed away or something, but have you considered how this might affect your, you know, sales efficiency? Oh God. And that is actually a story that I've seen posted on LinkedIn. I'm not just making that up. So yes, human intervention and making sure that you're looking at what your AI is doing and editing it and making sure that that does not
SPEAKER_15happen. Yep. Absolutely. So yeah, I mean, again, like we build that foundation that we can accelerate
EDDIE REYNOLDSit. Where do you want to go from here? I know this is a long podcast and if anybody's still with us, thank you. We're going to wrap this up soon, but I want to make sure we cover all the bases. So what
SPEAKER_06next, Rachel? Yeah. So next is inbound. Inbound process. I think one of the biggest parts of our
RACHAEL BUECKERTfundamentals is truly qualifying or defining what a qualified lead is.
EDDIE REYNOLDSYeah. And this is such a contentious point, right? So many people are like, well, the MQL is useless. The MQL is dead. And I don't really disagree, but let me define MQL for a moment. To me, an MQL is something, well, first let's break it down. There's two different types of MQLs. There are hand raisers. Assuming those hand raisers are in your ICP, your buyer personas, they should convert an extremely high rates. They need to be treated in a certain way. You need extremely fast lead response time. You need to be on top of those leads. People are asking to speak to sales and they're probably reaching out to your competitors at the exact same time. Studies show the first vendor to reach out most often wins the deal. So getting lead routing and lead response times dialed in for hand raisers is critical.
EDDIE REYNOLDSLet's push that off to the side for a moment. And let's talk about the other 99.9999% of marketing leads, the folks that do not want to speak to sales. What is an MQL? In my mind, an MQL is a lead that you pass to a sales rep to call somebody that does not want to speak to sales. So the definition of an
EDDIE REYNOLDSMQL has to be that it will convert to revenue at least as much, preferably more than a cold prospect. Because if I'm a sales rep and I know that I can just go into Zoom info and grab this company and person off of Zoom info and cold call them, and I'm going to get more revenue out of that person or out of a batch of a thousand of those people than I will working my inbound leads, then I will never, ever call an inbound lead ever again.
SPEAKER_60Yeah.
EDDIE REYNOLDSNor should I. If I'm the CRO in an organization and I'm looking at this, I'm going to say, why am I spending money having salespeople chase MQLs that don't convert when I can just have them do cold outbound? And you see all these companies that are these two separate teams. And I'll even give you a concrete story here. We had a customer that had this issue. Marketing is saying salespeople aren't following up the leads and salespeople are saying the leads are crap, right? Stereotypical story. So we tested this out. So we said, what happens if we just help them build an SDR team? They didn't have one previous to this. And let's map out the entire process and let's make sure that our response times are dialed in, that we follow up diligently these 10 times or whatever it is. We're calling the right people. We got the right messaging, everything. So we go and we do this with the SDR team. We do everything the way it's supposed to be done, map out the whole process. I shouldn't say we, I mean, they built the SDR team. We just help them. We don't build SDR teams. We help them define the process. They go and do this and they get nothing, like absolutely nothing, right? They call all these inbound leads and none of them convert. Now you might argue, oh, well, maybe you guys suck at USC or the SDRs were terrible. Well, let's test that theory. Next, we turn them on outbound. We give them a highly qualified list of cold prospects that have never heard of their company before. They start calling and within a couple of weeks, they've generated hundreds of thousands of dollars of qualified pipeline. That's proof that these inbound leads were worthless. So you've got to raise the bar on these inbound leads and say, it's got to be worth spending money to have salespeople call down on these folks. If it's not, pitch it back to marketing and nurture that lead. And so if we start there, we now have the beginnings of a process. And then we say, well, what is that process to follow up with those leads? How many times do we call them, email them, send them LinkedIn messages, send them packages in the mail. By the way, I know people that do this successfully. Whatever channel works, what's our process? What is the customer journey that they want to experience? And how do we map that to our process? I think I just skipped over that. And then do we have that process built into our systems? Can we see whether or not that process is being executed in our marketing automation tool and our CRM, which hopefully are integrated together? Have we built out cadences to follow up on those leads? And do we have the lead conversion metrics so we can see what's working and what's not? Can we see the follow-up? Can we see that the SDR followed up 10 times before they closed it out? And do we have this reporting in place so that management can go in and not only see what's working and what's not, but coach SDRs and BDRs to do the right things? That's when we can then move into optimization and we can start to see what's working and what's not. And what we can fix, we can start to incorporate like more advanced lead scoring or continue down the path of lead scoring, better lead nurturing. We can do a pipeline council like we mentioned, maybe work on improving our attribution model. But if we can't even follow up on our leads adequately, like none of the other stuff matters. Yeah. Your attribution does not matter if nobody follows up with your MQLs.
RACHAEL BUECKERTAnd I know like lead attribution models are a pretty hot button issue in marketing to begin with. So how do companies approach this to like really understand what's working when it comes to attribution? I don't want to go deep into this. We can do this on another podcast. I don't really
EDDIE REYNOLDSlike attribution all that much. I'll just say like, use whatever works. I don't really care. Yeah. You know, I know that like if you're buying ads that software can be pretty reliable. If it's coming out of the dark funnel, like podcasts, like you kind of have to ask whether it's on a marketing forum or in a sales call, you can combine this data together. You want to do first touch, you want to do last touch. The truth is it's a very unscientific approach. I say just start with something, try to get some visibility into it. You can do multi-channel. There's pros and cons of all these different approaches. Bottom line is none of this is a science. You don't have a test group and a control group that you can know for sure that, you know, here's a thousand people that listen to the podcast and read our white papers. And here's a thousand people that only read white papers. And this is how each cohort converted. Like we don't have that. Yeah. So pick something, use it to the best of your ability and don't treat it as gospel. That's all I have to say. And if anyone listening does want to dive in on more attribution stuff, we do have
RACHAEL BUECKERTprevious podcast interviews where you do talk about marketing, attribution, all that. So feel free to
RACHAEL BUECKERTtake a list at our, to take a look at our podcast list. Take a list. Take a list. Yeah. If that is something you're into, but moving on to automation or acceleration of inbound, do you know of any
RACHAEL BUECKERTstrategies or programs off the top of your head that help successfully amplify the inbound process?
EDDIE REYNOLDSWell, I think like one example of like using AI for this, that I think I really love is like the concept of lead enrichment, right? So instead of asking for 15 different things on a form, how do we just simply like, maybe we just ask for the email or the business email, and then we match the information in the business email to all of their other information. And now we have a better customer experience and better data that is self-serving to us at the same time. I really like that idea. I think there's a million different ideas here. The point though is, is like this by itself doesn't do a lot if our whole process is broken, but if our process is working, we can start to do a lot of advanced things to try to accelerate our inbound engine.
RACHAEL BUECKERTSo moving on quickly to the last motion, we want to talk about customer success, customer success processes. What are some of the fundamental processes that we need for a strong CS motion?
SPEAKER_31Well, you need handoff from sales to onboarding and or implementations. You need to have an actual
EDDIE REYNOLDSonboarding process or an implementation process. You have to get them through that process into a
EDDIE REYNOLDScertain point. You then have to monitor their health. So you have to figure out what data from the product do we have access to? And how do we identify customers that are healthy or unhealthy? You then need to have a process to address unhealthy customers. You should have a process to address healthy customers and generate expansion opportunities. And then of course, you need a sales process for your expansion opportunities and you need a process for running your renewals. There's a lot there, right? QBRs are baked into that. I think that's what's crazy about CS is it's like there's more processes in CS than like sales and marketing combined. And when I worked at Salesforce and most of the other jobs I've had in my life, including running this company, I've covered existing customers as well as new business. And when I was at Salesforce, I had to get the advantage of all of that being not only baked out, but also sitting front and center right inside of our CRM where I could see everything from their product usage to which marketing content they'd engage to even if they paid their bills on time. And that's sort of like higher up on the pyramid, but having this visibility across the entire process can be monumental in your ability to retain and expand your customers. Let me stop there and ask, what do you want to ask next before I just keep going?
RACHAEL BUECKERTI mean, we talked about capacity planning for outbound and sales, but I feel like capacity
RACHAEL BUECKERTplanning for CS is super important as well because I think customer success reps get even more
SPEAKER_115inundated with accounts than they can ever possibly effectively manage and track the health of these accounts and ensure that they're going to renew and all that.
EDDIE REYNOLDSYeah, I mean, it's critical. I get these automated emails all the time. It's like, hey, your renewal is coming up in 30 days. Do you want to renew? And I'm like, I haven't heard from you guys in a year. Or, hey, we saw you're a customer. Like, how are things going? I'm like, I mean, does that work? I understand we're a small business. I get it. You know, you might not want to spend money on trying to land USC as a customer of your SaaS product, but what about a much bigger company? What is the capacity of your team to do QBRs, to do personalized outreach, to skim through the account list and identify unhealthy customers? Like, first we have to bake in that process, and then we have to calculate how much time does it take to do those things. That'll then tell us what our headcount needs to be in CS across different roles. I think that that's really critical because if we don't do that, and very few organizations have done a capacity plan for their CS team, then we don't know whether or not we're understaffed other than just a complaint that feels like we don't have enough time to do everything. And is that why it's so hard for CS teams to fully adopt processes? Like, they just don't
RACHAEL BUECKERThave the bandwidth? I think that that's a big piece. I think another piece is that CS is oftentimes seen
EDDIE REYNOLDSas a cost center. They don't have as much clout in the organization, unfortunately. This is where I was saying, like, when I worked at Salesforce, we started selling to COOs instead of heads of CS because it felt like they didn't have the pull in the organization to get the things done that they wanted to get done, which is really unfortunate. I mean, you know, if you're at a hundred million dollar company, your revenue at the end of the year is going to be a lot more driven off of your existing customers and it is going to be new business. Yeah. And yet they're kind of the stepchild or what's
SPEAKER_77the saying? What are you guys saying in Canada? I don't even, you guys have to have like bastardized
SPEAKER_14this in some different mutation. I don't know. The last sled dog. I don't know. The last sled
SPEAKER_43dog. I don't know. We might have one, but I don't know. I'm going to coin it and make it a thing.
SPEAKER_87So moving on to optimization, how should companies be optimizing their customer success processes?
EDDIE REYNOLDSWell, with optimization, I always want to start with like, do we have accurate data on what's being done and not done and whether or not that's working right? So we obviously want to look at our renewal rates. We want to look at how much expansion pipeline we're generating, how much we're closing of our expansion pipeline and what's working and what's not working there. Some other things that we can do is, you know, we start to look at white space analysis. I look at this as like people usually think white space in terms of like, which products do our customers have and not have. I also like to think about stakeholder white space. Wow. Like we've talked to the VP of sales or CRO and every single one of our customers, but we haven't talked to the head of customer success. That's maybe a problem for renewals or a problem for expansion or both. What else? The integrated customer journey. I actually forgot where this was on the pyramid. You'd think I'd have this committed to memory by now. That's what I was talking about earlier. Like the idea of having all of your information in one place where you're able to see how healthy is the customer? How much have they engaged with marketing? Like I always find it funny that marketing is so often thought of just as new business and marketing can have such a monumental impact on existing customers, especially expansion. Yeah. Do they pay their bills on time? Like there's lots of signals in there to let you understand where you want to focus your energy. And if those are all in these disparate systems, it makes it really hard for CS to do their jobs. And when does it make sense to introduce
RACHAEL BUECKERTacceleration or automation into customer success? Again, I think it's like, you know, you get through the
EDDIE REYNOLDSfundamentals and the adoption really, really fast, right? Like we've got our process in place. Let's just get the team doing it. Okay, great. Like, I mean, it depends on how big the team is, but like in theory, like with a small team or one team, like you could get that done in a couple of weeks, right? A couple of days, if you're really dedicated to it. Now we start to look at what's working and what's not. You know, if you have enterprise sales cycles and expansion, like that can take a long time. But like, if it's just, hey, we need to reach out to all of our tier one customers and maybe schedule a QBR, like that can happen in a matter of a week. Once we've got something that is working and we've started to optimize it, that's, I think, when we start to look at acceleration. That's where we look at using AI and other tools to say, like, can we amplify something that's working? I mean, I feel like I'm repeating myself. It's the same thing with CS is everywhere else. It's just like, let's build a foundation and then build upon it. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of the point, right? Having that model that you can just
RACHAEL BUECKERTrepeat. Yep. So now we're talking about like implementing this model and like using it to help diagnose operational maturity and gaps and stuff like that. We talked before in the first half of the podcast about where a CRO could start looking at where their gaps might be and where they should prioritize, which motion they should prioritize first. But once they've figured out kind of that starting place, how should they move through the pyramid model?
SPEAKER_19Yeah, there's a lot of different ways to do this. So we use a revenue operations roadmap. Maybe we
EDDIE REYNOLDSshould rebrand that to go to market operations, which essentially is just, we take the OKRs, the organization, we match it to the initiative. So effectively it's OKRs. If you say, OK, like our top goal is to improve NRR from 90% to 110%. OK, well, within that, the first thing we need to do is shore up our renewals process. OK, great. Like, or not shore up our renewals process, but improve our retention rate. OK, in order to do that, we need to shore up our renewals process or our onboarding, handoff, et cetera. Those become the initiatives on the roadmap. We prioritize those according to which we think are first and foremost, like at the bottom of the pyramid. And secondly, which will have the quickest and greatest impact. Then we sort of climb up the pyramid from there. I think in a lot of instances when we're working with customers and sort of like everything across the board is, you know, very suboptimal, we'll say, well, let's get through fundamentals and adoption first across the board, and then we can look at optimization and acceleration. Because if you say, all right, we're just going to go and figure out our sales process that implement that into the CRM, get our reps actually following it. And then we're going to get this nice, clean report that shows our reps executing that process that gets you 80% of the way there. OK, sure. Like we can start to get into forecasting and all this other stuff. But like, is that really important if like our inbound engine is completely broken and we're not following up with leads? No. Like let's take two weeks to get the pipeline fixed and then let's go take two weeks to get inbound fixed. Let's go take two weeks to get outbound fixed and then let's go take two weeks to get like the basics of CS. And that might be overly ambitious. Usually like we're taking probably a quarter to get maybe two of the four things like in a good spot. It just depends on the size of the team, but you can get these basics in place and then it's like, OK, great.
EDDIE REYNOLDSLike we can breathe. Like we're not, you know, ignoring leads. We're not like losing deals we
EDDIE REYNOLDSshouldn't lose just because reps don't know they're supposed to do X, Y, Z at this stage in the sales cycle. Now let's look at like, we've also got accurate data now. So let's start to look at how
EDDIE REYNOLDSto optimize this. And that can take a lot longer, right? And that's an ongoing indefinite thing.
EDDIE REYNOLDSSame with acceleration. It's like once you've got that foundation in place, you can start to look at optimization and acceleration. And these might take much longer, especially if we've got like an enterprise sales cycle, man, like it could take us years before we really nail this down. But we know
EDDIE REYNOLDSthat like if our reps aren't even like following the sales process, we're probably going to have a suboptimal outcome. Yeah. And optimization and acceleration can be a never ending pursuit,
RACHAEL BUECKERTreally, because as time goes on, you know, the industry landscape changes, products change, so much can change in an industry as we've seen in the last decade alone.
SPEAKER_31Or you nailed this in SMB and now you're like, okay, like we're crushing in an SMB. We want to
EDDIE REYNOLDSmove them into mid-market enterprise. Great. Well, that's a different sales motion.
RACHAEL BUECKERTYeah, exactly. And acceleration, there's new, new tools and products coming out every month or almost every week or day, even, especially as the, you know, technology just exponentially advances, it will kind of never be ending.
EDDIE REYNOLDSI mean, I think that that's really the exciting thing. And I think it's so funny, like we've written some articles on AI, but we've really tried to stay away from it because we've been so focused on like, what are these core fundamental issues? But now I think that like, we've kind of developed our content and our practice around this. I think that's where we're starting to look at this too. And it's like, I'm finally, I personally feel ready for these shiny objects because it's like, well, Hey, you know, and we've already talked to some folks, but like, if there's a really, really great AI tool to help identify ICP or territories, capacity planning, and I know there are like, I'm all for it. It's great. Um, but if you don't know what these building blocks are, you can't just buy a bunch of tools and expect to like magically
EDDIE REYNOLDSbe able to have an efficient go to market.
RACHAEL BUECKERTYeah. What's that thing you said that your tools won't save you?
SPEAKER_27I probably said that. I don't remember it. It was, it was on a post or something. It was a really great soundbite.
RACHAEL BUECKERTIt was like, your tools won't save you or something like that, or something about process.
EDDIE REYNOLDSUh, it might've just been the fact that like, I've talked a few times about how like half my customers at Salesforce didn't use Salesforce and how like, it really came down to this idea that I'd see these people come to me and they're like, okay, we bought Salesforce. We're trying to get our team to use it. Salesforce is hard to use. They complain about it. And I'm just like, what is hard to use about this? Like, I get it. I'm not the biggest fanboy of Salesforce. I don't think it's the best piece of software that's ever existed, but like I've hired so many people that like, are like, wait, what Salesforce when I hired them and I give them like an hour of training and then they're using it. Yeah. And it's just because like, I'm like, I want you to do this one thing.
EDDIE REYNOLDSAnd here's the report where it shows you that you did this thing. And then if you don't do that thing, I'm going to call you out on it. And then it's just like, I've never had a problem with this. Hey, Bob, you were supposed to like log your calls here. I don't see any calls locked. Oh, I didn't know I was supposed to do that. Or I didn't know how to do that. Okay. Cool. Let's fix that. All right. Tomorrow I look at the report again. Hey, Bob, I still don't see. Oh yeah. I forgot. Okay. Don't forget. Or you won't have a job tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. So like tomorrow, Bob, oh wow. Look, all your stuff is in Salesforce. Like this is not difficult. And then you see these folks that like throw their hands up in the air and they're like, well, we tried all this and we tried this and we tried that. And I'm like, this is not rocket science. Like just focus on the fundamentals. Map out your process, get your team to execute that process and then monitor and measure it and then give them coaching and feedback. Yeah. I mean, if Salesforce, if using it is so hard for some of
RACHAEL BUECKERTthese companies and these reps, then it's probably because of their fundamentals aren't in place and their fundamentals aren't built into the CRM because that's going to make it significantly harder. If you
RACHAEL BUECKERTdon't have the right fields or anything, then like, how do you, how are you supposed to know what to do or how are you supposed to remember to put these things in?
SPEAKER_130Did you ever use Salesforce before you joined us? Never. I'd never seen it in my life.
RACHAEL BUECKERTHow much training did we give you? Like an hour? Like two hours. Yeah.
EDDIE REYNOLDSI don't even remember training you. I just know like whatever I've asked you to do in Salesforce, you do it. And I'm like, okay, that seems to be working.
RACHAEL BUECKERTYeah. It was incredibly, before I got like a couple hours of just sitting with someone and learning about it, it was incredibly confusing because it's, yeah, if you don't know anything about it, then yeah, it's a daunting thing. But it doesn't take long to learn. It was pretty intuitive for me. So.
EDDIE REYNOLDSYeah. I mean, it took me a year to, I first had Salesforce before I ever like was exposed to it in a company. And I tried to figure it out for a year on my own. I wanted to use it for my own personal Rolodex. And then I joined a company that, uh, was built on Salesforce and they're just like, oh, this is how you use Salesforce. I was like, oh, get it now. Yeah. Yeah. You just need
SPEAKER_27to have somebody that knows what they're doing, like training for like an hour or two. It's not that complicated. Exactly. Yeah. And I say it's pretty intuitive that that might be, um,
RACHAEL BUECKERTIt's not intuitive at all. Yeah. I was just, I was like, it might be a tribute to just how
RACHAEL BUECKERTwe've set up our Salesforce and how like Jerry is, has, cause for me, it's intuitive just because of the way that it's set up. I think it's that like, you probably haven't seen
EDDIE REYNOLDSlike 1% of Salesforce. We just didn't bother to show you all this stuff. That's not relevant to you. We just are like, Hey Rachel, like we want you to look at leads and opportunities. And here's this like dashboard that shows how much we've closed from inbound. And you're like, okay, I got it. Yeah. I've, you haven't shown, you just showed me the tip of the iceberg. And so for me, I'm like,
RACHAEL BUECKERToh, it's great. Yeah. Yeah. So to wrap this up real quick, if a CRO or, you know, go to market
RACHAEL BUECKERTstrategy ops leader is listening to this podcast right now, and they want to apply this framework
RACHAEL BUECKERTtoday, what is one piece of advice that you would give them? Uh, I don't know. Check out our materials.
EDDIE REYNOLDSUm, what's one piece of advice I say, start with one thing. So the point that I was just making, like just focus on one thing and get it down. I am consistently reminded of this, and it's not just in go to market. It's across like managing my entire organization. If I want my team to have clean pipeline, then I just need to focus on having clean pipeline. I need to build a pipeline report. I need to show it to everybody. I need to train them on how to use it. And then I need to put in whatever level of effort is required until we get there. And then whatever level of effort is required to keep it there, do that before you do anything else. And you'll be surprised at how fast that can happen. And then you move on to the next thing. Check out our rev ops roadmap framework on our website and
EDDIE REYNOLDSbuild out a roadmap and do these things one at a time and check them off as done. It is amazing to
EDDIE REYNOLDSme how much can be accomplished in a year. If you just sit down and think like, I'm going to do this thing and then this thing, and then this thing, and whatever it takes, I'm going to get it right. That's it. And if you want to help, reach out to us. If you don't want our help or you don't want
EDDIE REYNOLDSto pay us for it, like we've got all of our content, all of our secret sauce right on our website, on our podcast. I post on LinkedIn all the time. We've got a YouTube channel that's kind of nascent,
EDDIE REYNOLDSbut we're going to start putting more stuff up there. Check it out. Yeah. That's my advice. What am I missing, Rachel? I mean, and it doesn't even have to take a year. Like it can be,
RACHAEL BUECKERTyou can get through the fundamentals and adoption for go to market motion within like a month. Oh, for sure. Or a few weeks. I'm talking about the whole thing. Like the whole thing. Yeah. You
EDDIE REYNOLDSfix inbound and outbound and pipeline and NRR across SMB, mid-market enterprise. Like you can do so much in a year if you just take one piece at a time. And yet like my customers at Salesforce would
EDDIE REYNOLDSbe like, Oh, we've had Salesforce for five years and we can't figure out how to use it. And I'm just like, what is stopping you? Yeah. There's nothing stopping you. You can do it.
RACHAEL BUECKERTAll right. Yeah. So if you guys wanted to check out all that content we have on our website, you can go to www.unionsquareconsulting.com slash frameworks. You can check out our go to market efficiency pyramid framework and all the other frameworks that we have available there or slash newsletter. And we just have like 78 newsletters. Now you can go through quite a lot of content. I mean, you're going to put this stuff in the show notes, right? Of course.
EDDIE REYNOLDSNo, no, no. Please pull your car over and write this down right now. Yeah, no, it'll be in the
SPEAKER_15show notes. Sweet. I thought all of our listeners had perfect memories. What is it? Eidetic memory?
SPEAKER_136I don't know. In America, we say photographic. Photographic? This isn't a photo. It's like an
RACHAEL BUECKERTauditory. You have a different name for everything. Yeah. All right. Well, I think that's all we have.
EDDIE REYNOLDSAwesome. Rachel, this has been fun. Thank you for organizing this and putting this together.
SPEAKER_76Definitely. Thank you, Eddie. And I'll see you later.
EDDIE REYNOLDSThanks for listening to the show. If this resonated and or you'd like help with anything we talked about in the show, please reach out to us. You can find us at unionsquareconsulting.com and the info will be in our show notes.
